Leyland P76 Owners 2004

Technical Discussion

Fuel Catalyst and LPG

Mon, 1 Nov 2004

For about a year I have been using Prozone fuelsavers in both my P76s, one on petrol, and the other on LPG.
These products overcome problems caused by the non-availability of leaded fuel, and make it possible to run cars on ULP without the usual associated problems with valves etc.
I have noted 11.49% improvement of fuel economy on the petrol car, but not on the LPG car.
In both cars, there is a marked improvement in the way the car runs, whether on petrol or gas, and they are not just a gimmick.
I believe members would find that everyday use is as practical as it was with fuels of the early
1970s with these products installed.
I have spoken to the person who is active in developing and marketing these products in Australia. He has viewed the P76 Club web page.
He spoke to me yesterday, and says that he would be interested to speak to you about making the products known and available to members.
I don't know what sort of policy you have regarding this, but this is a product I recommend because I have used it successfully on my cars.
He is John Spencer, and he can be contacted at tel. 07 5445 7949, and by e-mail at roadnet@hotkey.net.au. The company web page is at http://www.prozone.com.au
Have a good day.
Mike Chadwick

Reply from Jilden South Australia

I have looked long and hard at the Fuelstar catalyst system which I think is similar to the Prozone system, and have concluded that there is little chance of the tin catalyst making it to the cylinders in an LPG system.
However, there is good reason to believe that on petrol, especially standard unleaded, the engine would receive substantial benefits.
Your results in economy suggest this is true.
As far as valve protection is concerned, I repeat, and repeat often, a standard P76 V8 needs no extra protection.
My wife's P76 has now covered 325 000 km on LPG and still shows no signs of undue wear.
I had a head off a couple of years ago when it cracked and leaked. There was no valve wear worth mentioning.
My reason in stating that the catalyst is useless on LPG is that it is delivered to the engine in fine particles suspended in the liquid fuel.
When the fuel vapourises all that you end up with is a tin plated LPG converter.
Regards,
Jilden.

Reply to Jilden comments

by Mike
Tue, 2 Nov 2004 13:36:25 +1100
Hi Jilden,
I agree that P76 V8 valves/valve seats are quite adequate for use with a dry fuel (LPG) without any further protection. This is my experience, and your wife's car is an excellent demonstration of this. None of the discussion below in any way detracts from that standpoint.
ULP is also a 'dry' fuel, so far as an engine is concerned. Before I fitted the Prozone Fuelsaver, I was using straight ULP in that car, not LRP, for the same reason, that P76 V8 valves/valve seats are adequate for use with a dry fuel. There were no apparent problems developing from this practice in the engine before I fitted the Prozone Fuelsaver, but I had been warned about gradual adverse effects in carburettors which would not have occurred with the old leaded petrol, eg main jet wear. I decided to try the Prozone catalyst in the petrol car because of its capacity to negate the adverse effects of ULP in the carburettor and to improve fuel octane rating. That it became necessary to adjust carburetion, reducing idle and throttle screw settings, indicated that there were improvements. One noteable observation is that the inlet tracts below the carburettor are 'tinned' and looking a lot cleaner, and the inside of the carby itself is free of internal varnish formation.
However, regarding the use of a Prozone unit with LPG, in my experience, your theory that a liquid fuel is required to carry the tin particles, though logical, is not upheld. Last week I had reason to remove the LPG supply system from the top of the engine, enabling me to see the inlet tracts inside the plenum (this engine is LPG only - there is no petrol carburettor or petrol supply to this engine). To my own surprise, there is just as much 'tin' in the inlet tracts of the LPG motor as with the petrol motor, especially in the upper plenum, so I must assume that the effects of surface technology, when the LPG is in its liquid state, persist in the gaseous state after passage through the converter. I saw no evidence of tin in the hose between the converter and the mixer, probably due to dissimilarity of surfaces. Another point is that the LPG units may not be the same as petrol units.
In my introductory letter to Adrian, I mentioned that there were immediate benefits felt in the motor when the Prozone LPG unit was fitted to my car. I believe that piston ring lubrication is an issue as well as valve seat condition, but that needs elaboration by Prozone, preferably not by me.
However, I am not the 'horse's mouth' or expert on this subject, and I have only related what I have found. The expertise lies with the Prozone company who are constantly researching these devices, especially for the Australian market in the environment of Australian fuels, which are not known for their "goodness". I suggest that this is taken up with Prozone, and that we let them answer, and everybody can make their own judgments. I have provided details of the Prozone webpage and the contact that I suggested that Adrian make. This e-mail will be cc to that contact so that all these issues be properly addressed from a Prozone viewpoint should they choose to do so.
I raised this matter because I thought it particularly pertinent for petrol users, who may be paying for fuel improvers etc. over and above their normal fuel costs. Prozone Fuel savers will negate their requirement. This is more relevant to owners of 6cyl. cars because they do not have the same valves and seating as the V8.
For LPG users, the point that you raised is obviously a valid one. If LPG users are to fit these items, these questions need to be raised and answered.
Best wishes to you,
Mike Chadwick.
02 November 2004
Hello Mike,
Very interesting, to see a change inside with LPG.
The reason that I suspected liquid was required was due to the literature for the Fuelstar containing the usual cop-outs as to "kinks" and "long runs" impeding the delivery of the catalyst. LPG of course is full of obstructions for straight through flow, and the rep wasn't able to tell me how transfer was to take place. Prozone might be more helpful, and your experience is also valuable.
Regards,
Jilden
Tue, 02 Nov 2004
Jilden,
Out of interest, the Prozone LPG unit screws right into the back of the Impco converter, and the electric lock-off is as close to the Prozone unit as possible.
That is how Prozone specify that it should be mounted, and only by a qualified LPG fitter.
So there are no kinks and long runs between the catalyst and the converter, only between the tank and the lock-off before the converter.
I have found Prozone to be very helpful and informative, and I hope you find likewise.
Mike.
Last updated
Jan, 2005
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